nigger didn’t bother me
nubian on Nov 21st 2006
the thing that upset me the most about it, was not the use of the word nigger, but the reference to 1950’s lynching–which the audience applauded and laughed at.
but, he did apologize.
Filed in nonsense |
I just finished watching his “apology” on Letterman. It was pathetic. It didn’t even bear any relationship to any accountability on his part. There is all this disavowal throughout the interview. He says things like, “I went into a rage”, “I lost my temper” as if he was out of control and did not know what came over him. He even goes so far as to say, “I’m not a racist, it shot out of me”. Apparently he was possessed by the spirit of his confederate ancestors. & then Letterman asks him these leading questions like, what if the hecklers had been white? Even given this he seems unable to come up with something coherent that even implies some real sense of culpability.
On top of all that at one point he goes off on this strange tangent about the aftermath of Katrina and how he has friends that have done relief work in NOLA and international acts of aggression. It got pretty incoherent when he started talking about “the forcefields of hate” that apparently threaten us all and the solidarity of the “afro-american” community in response to this apparently isolated outburst on his part. I did at least gather that he sees the beauty of the solidarity of the afro-american community. Richards is glad that we are there for each other when people like him strike out at us.
The mind boggles…
[…] Blac(k)ademic: Video of “Sienfeld” co-star Michael Richards’ Racist Diatribe See also The Moderate Voice for a detailed summary of events, Blackprof.com on Richards’ bizarre denial that he could be a racist, and Prometheus 6 brief quote on free speech. […]
[…] Blac(k)ademic: Video of “Sienfeld” co-star Michael Richards’ Racist Diatribe See also The Moderate Voice for a detailed summary of events, Blackprof.com on Richards’ bizarre denial that he could be a racist, and Prometheus 6 brief quote on free speech. […]
I am not trying to release anyone from responsibility, but I would venture a guess that most young Americans do not quite believe that lynchings happened. They may have heard about them in some PBS special, but it is not real to them. I lived in North Florida for a while, one of the last places to get lynching under control, and most of the people I encountered there would look at me like I was crazy or saying something uncouth whenever I mentioned it. Maybe we have all decided to make a silence pact, just like in families where children are abused. If you say anything, then there is something wrong with you. I can see why it bothered you that people laughed. It was probably the thing that made them most uncomfortable, so they had to laugh. There is a fine line between dwelling in the past and forgetting important things. I think it is important to remember that lynching was an everyday threat to Black men not that long ago. (Nowadays, it has been replaced with incarceration for drug possession, or driving with an expired license, or something stupid like that.) God Bless. Keep up the good work.
Anyone who advocates lynching people does not deserve American respect or financial support. (Hear that, NYOIL?) The Letterman apology grated because Jerry Seinfeld trotted out on stage with the satellite hookup to Michael Richards in a desperate attempt to stanch possible lost revenue from the Season 7 Seinfeld dvd sales.
Jerry Seinfeld’s bottom line forced Michael Richards into an odd and meandering ‘apology’ that cannot take away from his depraved attack on paying Black customers. I really hope folk don’t rush out to buy Seinfeld after this.
Dont forget the fork…
PEACE
Pele: I was thinking the same thing! Its not so much the use of the word “nigger” (although uncalled for), but the fact that he chose to mock the dehumanization of an entire people. If the hecklers were Jewish, and he responded by saying along the lines of “50 years ago, we would have buried your ass alive”, the media would have called for his hanging; Jerry Seinfeld would have not come to his defense; and NO WAY would Letterman have invited him to his show. What is even more bothersome is White and some Blacks’ reaction to it as if it was no big deal, he was provoked or my personal favorite “Black people use it to describe each other, so why can’t we”. What’s “insane” is the fact that the hecklers only said that they thought he wasn’t funny. They never called him cracker until his repeated use of the word nigger. The hecklers suggested that he was a bad comedian - he allowed us to see that he also is a bad person.
ah, the magical racist remark generator, capable of producing racist hate speech at the drop of a hat, even in people who otherwise aren’t racist. is he sure he didn’t pick up Mel Gibson’s bag at the airport?
Bth Seinfeld and “Krammer” are Jewish. You would think being Jewish he would be a little bit more understanding to the plight of black people.
I actually like that he felt free to express his self. It would be nice if more racists felt free to express themselves openly so we would know who we can “trust”.
i dont necessarily see why folks think that jewish=not an bigoted asshole.
When I read Janet Helms’ White Identity theory (her book, A Race is a Nice Thing to Have is a great read…) which basically states that all white folks are racists due to the way we are socialized by other whites I was really pissed off, after a lot of reflection, I realized that Janet was spot on. Almost all white peoples heads are chock full of racist epithets and prejudices. It took me a long time to figure out that being an anti-racist was what I needed to be for my own soul. I am sad with the fact that I have a head full of slurs and hate and that I had no choice since I was socialized as a kid.
It’s no surprise that Michael Richards is a racist. Most white folks are racist. It just depends on whether it’s overt or the more widespread “covert” (at least to white folks…)
I am constantly amazed at how a public apology is somehow supposed to wipe the slate clean.
everyone is racist. i think kramer (he will only be seen as kramer in my eyes) just unluckily got caught on tape expressing his racisms. that’s why i wasn’t offended as much—it’s a given that we all harbor negative thoughts about people based on their race—i do it. you do it. we all do it.
[…] For more see Nubian and Blackprof. […]
Shocking video. I had a hard time watching it with the sound on.
I agree, everyone is racist. Maybe a better term is Eurocentric–anything that doesn’t fit into our WASP (male) society, people have stereotypes about and just because you are in one target group doesn’t mean you don’t harbor stereotypes about another. Jews can be racist as well. Had he been a Black Jew, it wouldn’t have went down like that (lets remember that Black and Jewish are not mutually exclusive categories and that Black Jews are heavily dicriminated against in parts of the world, here being one of them).
It it so strange to me that people can argue that they went into a rage and said these things. I can only imagine that the reason this excuse is acceptable is because the person who excuses it can understand why Kramer would call blacks nigger or throw in some imagery about them “hanging upside down.” In a “Oh, I understand how you could feel that way about those people…” thing. Crazy.
Thanks for posting this, Nubian. I had heard so much about it but couldn’t find the footage. (:
I know a lot of people, here and elsewhere, are trying to make something out of the irony of Michael Richards’s being Jewish and having said those horrible things. The problem is, he isn’t Jewish; never has been. (AFAIK, he’s Catholic.) So, maybe this isn’t the right opportunity for people to be giving their opinions about racist Jews, etc.
I personally hate it when people say “everybody is racist”—because it then makes people feel like, well, *everybody* is this way, so I’m not so bad, I’m not so wrong–and it’s not so urgent that I work on my shit, because, well, *everybody* is like this. Sorry, but when I get into fights/disagreements with black folks, I don’t say or even *think*–”yeah, fifty years ago, I could’ve had your ass hanging and burning baby!”
I understand the larger concept of we’re in a racist society, thus we’re born into racism and we have to make a conscious choice to be a different way–but come on–his behavior is rephrensible, and I think it’s wrong to lessen the reprehensible-ness (is that a word??) of his behavior by saying, well, everybody is racist. sorry, like I said, there are pleeeenty of us out there who have figured out how to not think about lynching when we disagree with a black person.
you what made me laugh…
It was the fact that people sat there.. they just sat there…
They didn’t mind when the black guys got up and said..’that was uncomfortable’ they just laughed nervously.
Those typeof reactions are EXACTLY why the slavery and the holocaust happened.
People will rarely ever check their friends, parents or even partners on their racism. They’ll just letit slide because well he/she/it doesn’t really mean it. They are just blowing off steam.
oh and you can hear in the background, someone saying..’David are you leaving, no david don’t leave’ and you sit there and think.. jesus fucking christ . for real?
These same people will be the first to line up and say, I believe in equality, I abhor racism, I’m not racist.. no you don’t understand the context … it was just amisfired joke. you had to be there to ‘get it’.
And I know this one is bound to come at some point…
‘well, they were talking you know, and you know they were really loud, they really shouldn’t have been talking cos you know if you draw attention to yourself in a comdey show, the comedian will mock you’.
‘he’s not really racist, you know he has friends who are black, he once date a black girl, he is indescriminate when he choses hookers, he is jewish.. he can’t be racist…
and blah blah blah blah…
this proves it.. A large section of people will sit and watch shit go down, they’ll laugh with nervous laughter but hell no will they do anything to help your black ass.
Most of those folk got up when the idiot walked off.. But I bet you half of them will tell their friends that they got up immediately… cos you know we are not racist, but really we thought he was ‘joking’ at first.
I can’t count the number of times I’ve been in a situation, where someone has been racist, refused me servie, pushed me, ignored me or made an obvious racist comment whilst I’m with my nice, lovely work colleagues or ‘friends’ and each and every time they let it slide, they looked aways as if i was the cause of their embarrassment.
Usually after the event or at lunch the next day, they would say ‘can you believe what happened, that was bad, but you know those people are like that he probably hasn’t been around black people before’
As if that nullifies the insult or discrimination.
through personal experience, I know that it is the ones that shout their anti-racism the loudest that always… always bail out when they could prove it.
In this fight, I’ve always believed that we ‘black people’ are on our own. And because of this.. I am never ever surprised when bullocks like this happens.
Instead Im pleasantly surprised when it doesn’t.
“I personally hate it when people say “everybody is racist”—because it then makes people feel like, well, *everybody* is this way, so I’m not so bad, I’m not so wrong–and it’s not so urgent that I work on my shit, because, well, *everybody* is like this.”
Ahh, the movie “Crash” personified. I’m so sick of other whites defending their racism by saying in essence, “what, I can say that and act that way or reinforce beliefs that tolerated slavery with my behavior. ‘Cause hey, “Crash” said everybody is racist!”. I didn’t even want to see the damn thing after I read a summery of the movie, with the marginalization of Asian characters and of how Thandie Newton being a woman of color specifically played into Dillon’s character molesting her apparently means nothing, and self-indulgent white people arguing like that. Sorry for that tangent…
I also agree - anybody can be a bigoted asshole when you‘d think there would be more empathy and solidarity (though it is important not to conflate the power structures). White Jews against blacks or vise-versa, white women against people of color or vise-versa, Puerto Ricans against Mexicans or vise-versa, Vietnamese against Khmers or vise-versa, the Irish against gays or vise-versa.
“What is even more bothersome is White and some Blacks’ reaction to it as if it was no big deal, he was provoked”
I think it is a big deal even if he was “provoked”. One thing I realized was that it come across to me as not something Richards felt in his heart-of-hearts but just using his privilege and awareness to attack somebody who heckled him (of course, I don‘t know what he believes, just what I saw). The issue is that it was there at all, I think, so not that it is any better and I am not defending him but addressing different dimensions and realizations of racism.
That anybody on the street who doesn’t like your non-endangering behavior towards you that hurts your feelings can make you BECOME your color or BECOME your origin or BECOME your class or BECOME your sex and it is insulting with NO COORESPONDING TERMS is still bad as if it reflected one’s views because it shows it exists (despite the modern bigot line of “I’m not racist/sexist, but luckily that isn’t a problem any longer…”) and it shows that even if it isn’t in somebody’s soul or heart or world-view - whatever you want to call it - it is in their head and socialization. I think that should be distinguished not to excuse the perpetrator or to lessen its effects, but to illustrate just how many levels it can exist on and address it instead of using it as an excuse to say, “so it wasn‘t really racism“ or a belief that “so that means you don‘t think its racist“.
Vanessa said: I would venture a guess that most young Americans do not quite believe that lynchings happened. They may have heard about them in some PBS special, but it is not real to them.
You’re more right than you know. I know my high-school history book had a whole paragraph about lynching. One. Paragraph. With one old photo so tiny it was impossible to tell what was happening without reading the figure legend. People have no concept.
There’s an interesting thread on shakespearessister.com about this today (scroll down). She talks specifically about passive racism, and that idea brownfemipower brought up above that somehow “everybody’s racist” has become an excuse.
@ nubian- Why are you alright with him utering the word Nigger.
I’m offended by everything that came out of his trap. The apology that he gave was very weak. I don’t think he took the time to think about what he said before coming on Letterman.
“the thing that upset me the most about it, was not the use of the word nigger, but the reference to 1950’s lynching–which the audience applauded and laughed at.”
I’ve been saying that soo many times. It’s funny how a white person can say any racist thing they like as long as that word isn’t uttered; otherwise, they’re just being shocking. There’s already a long line of people willing to defend him. Even on the youtube comments (not that racism is new to the tube) have people comparing this to Chapelle’s Show.
And why would Katrina come up in his apology?
I agree with brownfemipower (partly anyway) the whole “everybody is racist” shtick reminds me of the equally tired “white people experience racism too” drivel… (Personally, I don’t agree that everyone is “racist” but I guess that depends on what your definition of “racism” is)
As for Michael Richards expressing “his racisms” it’s straight-up white supremacy—its clear who the targets of these white supremacist expressions are what’s also clear is that at any moment we can be reminded of the history of the brutal dehumanization of black people as a hallmark of the “good ol’ days” just in case we get too uppity and need to be put in our place. Also what’s been upsetting to me about this incident is that so much of the “shock” and “outrage” in reaction to his statements frame them as an aberration really, what’s so surprising? That white supremacy exists (given the fact that a few people were laughing way after the lynching threats were made) or that he would choose this particular venue to express these feelings?
bfp–
i see what you\’re saying, but i have to be honest, we are all products of the society we are born into–and social relations in america are and will continue to be predicated upon racism if everyone keeps denying what\’s actually there. i think that acknowledging our racism is the only way that we can even begin to have a dialouge about how to \”cure\” (for lack of a better term) this social ill.
plus, i don\’t think that acknowledging our own racisms and biases automatically absolves people from overly offensive and hurtful actions–it\’s much more complicated than that. it is not an either or. at least, i don\’t think so.
stacy–
i am upset of his use of the word nigger, however, i think that nigger is so thrown around these days (by everyone), that it is not as shocking of a thing for me to hear anymore. it hurts, yes. i don’t use that word nor condone the use of it, but like i said, i am not surprised to hear it anymore.
the reference to lynching, just fucked with my head. the fact that he and his audience applauded the advocating of lynching in fucking 2006 (almost 7) disturbs me to no end.
note to white people: you don’t have the permission to say “nigger” or “nigga” or any of variance of the word. i don’t give a doggone how many times i hear that word come out of black folks’ mouths, it freaking pisses me off to hear caucasians say it. ahhhh dammit!! i’m so disgusted….
http://boards.billmaher.com/showthread.php?t=53096&page=4
11-20-2006, 09:11 PM
Evan_Gelical
Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 112
Re: Is Kramer a Racist?
——————————————————————————–
The context you laid out doesn’t make it any more acceptable. If someone is pissing you off white, black or otherwise it is still racism if you revert to racial epithets. And quite frankly there race is completly irrelevant, rude is rude regardless of skin tone. There is no reason you can’t address them as you would somebody of your own race that is behaving in the same manner.
Not true, in todays culture there is a generation that has embraced the word nigger as an accurate description of who they are, they are black, young and rude, obnoxious, in your face, unconventional, and purposefully offencive in the way they talk, walk, and dress.
They call themselves niggers.
They care not how they offend in fact they relish in their offenciveness, it is their right to be as rude as they want and than they dare you to call them out.
Well Kramer did and as he said ohhhhhhh I offended theee…
Ohhh I said it….
Oooooooh…
Get over it…
I applaud his balls!
To bad tomorrow he will cut them off and give them to Snoop Dog.
This is really sad:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-ridley/a-couple-of-n-words-wal_b_34664.html
And the author is a Black man!
Vanessa, as quite a young person, I can assure you that most young [white] Americans do believe that lynchings happened. You are quite right that lynchings aren’t real to them, however. What we are taught in our schools and families often downplays the racism of the past and present and its horrible effects.
The apology was a great example of “white person tries to make good with black folks”. The awkwardness, the fumbling of terminology (AFRO-American?), the random comments about things he thinks blacks want to hear (Katrina?). I’m surprised he didn’t make some reference to the great Afro-american leader Kanye West.
As for his original tirade, overblown. Yes it was very much racist. It’s pathetic if some people don’t get that. How obvious does he have to be? But one racist man is not the problem. The problem is much bigger and more subtle. Unfortunatly, crazy white guys hurling slurs is still many people’s model for racism. That’s not what’s doing the damage these days. Poverty, disparities in education, health, etc. Those are the real issues.
I was floored by this. As someone who is black and jewish I know that being jewish doens’t excuse one from being racist but I will say my jewish family is much more active and intolerant of oppression than many other white folks. I think one thing that is often misses is that black people can be racist too. Not that it matters in this situation but it is an oft overlooked fact. Honestly though, does it surprise anyone. I know it was Seinfield’s show but in the however many years it ran how many black people were on it? Maybe three? Anyway, the whole lynching thing is just a total shock. I can’t believe anyone would go there. Maybe this discussion will get more people thinking about the reality that was for many of our brothers and sisters passed.
The Letterman segment is exactly the dynamics you see an abuser put forth after an attack. Richards is still demanding control of the situation, and everyone is tiptoing around him. The whole “yes I recognize what I did was wrong and I am hurting and it was my rage” bullshit.
He is making it about him, how this hurt him.
Abusers don’t hurt from their attacks, they GAIN from their attacks, that’s why they do it. Unless we all condemn and shun him, the message is: don’t heckle a white man if you’re black.
It is racist to coddle a racist. He needs no help. To worry about his feelings, how he is “shattered” as Seinfeld said, is to enable him.
It’s not about “rage”. Someone who is mad will hit a dog before hitting their boss. So it’s not the rage that is the problem, it’s the fact that Richards views black people as a legitimate target of the rage.
Natalie, good observation about Seinfeld, it’s true, there were almost no blacks on the show and the ones who were were very unsympathetc. And whites wonder why blacks never watched it.
I mean, I watched it, it was a very well-crafted show and very funny, but I can’t ignore the shunning of POC on the show. Same with Friends.
On top of it all, it turns out the guy’s done blackface, repeatedly called a woman the c-word, and went on an anti-semitic tirade. Now he’s hired a PR person and is arranging meetings with Rev. Sharpton and Rev. Jackson in an attempt to reform his image.
This guy’s a piece of work.
I don’t think that the David Letterman show was the right place to air Michael’s apology, because the audience was laughing and David himself made a joke at the end. I always watch Senfeld and I think Kramer is one of the best on the show, however after seeing Michael go off the way he did at the comedy show and that weak apology on Letterman, is another classic example of someone in the public eye saying degrading racist remarks and thinking that a public apology will fix it!
This is huge. In situations like this whites look to the victim to step up and defend him/herself and we must stop doing this! Being white, we don’t see racism every day and when confronted with it we tend react like stunned bunnies. We need to recognize that THIS REACTION IS RACIST. We need to think ahead and prepare ourselves for what we will say and do on those occasions.
welcome to the wordpress family! good to have you and your excellent writing.
It’s not about “rage”. Someone who is mad will hit a dog before hitting their boss. So it’s not the rage that is the problem, it’s the fact that Richards views black people as a legitimate target of the rage.
Salty, I think this analogy hits it right on the spot. Only those with institutional power can be racist. This doesn’t mean that targeted groups cannot be prejudice. The effect of being born in this society does affect us all.. but we all don’t have the kind of power that whites have in “gaining from their attacks” as Salty put it.
Most people may watch this clip and call Krammer a racist, but won’t attribute racism to the white race, even when they gain institutional, structural, political, and econmic power because of racism both as a historical and present systematic practice. Now, when people of color fuck up and it blows up in the media, well, we know how that goes.. assumptions about a whole race usually automatically get thought up and spoken about…
And by the way, as long as racism continues, white people should not be allowed to use the word nigger or nigga.. under any circumstances, nor should they profit (monetarily or otherwise) from its commodification. Certainly its commodification has made it “feel” like its okay to use it or hear it. It has been used as an oppositional term, and it looses its oppositionality when white folks can use it as yet another reason to state “see.. racism doesn’t exist anymore.. nobody is affected by the use of the word because it doesn’t carry any meaning behind it anymore…”
“Everyone is racist. i think kramer (he will only be seen as kramer in my eyes) just unluckily got caught on tape expressing his racisms. that’s why i wasn’t offended as much—it’s a given that we all harbor negative thoughts about people based on their race—i do it. you do it. we all do it.”
Why do only white men or light skinned men pay for it?
What Richards said about lynching was wrong and hateful and and I am sure his career is over but he raises a good point in his apology where does the general rage come from?
It is evident in the fact I feel I am not allowed to talk about this for fear of being labeled or thought of as racist.
Well here is my “politically incorrect” white perspective on the black white conflict.
Thanks to PC and feminist influence white men having non-ashamed public opinions about the black-white is considered racist. We should not try to talk about it, we should only bow our heads in shame no progress is made this way.
I feel feminism and pcism is what fuels racism now, it’s all about shaming and looking for an excuse to cry racist, David Chappell labels white people racist and is racist towards whites, its how he made a fortune.
White people are the only people that have to watch what they say, that is a double standard and that’s why there is tension, there is not the proper balance to have rational dialogue.
The liberal media creates so much racial tension by hyping up any incident it gets its hands on. It’s not PC to imply racism against white men, hard core feminuts feel only whites can be racist as “only whites have power”, yeah the 5% of us. This WE in my town a 17 year old boy was stabbed to death at his birthday celebration by a group of Asian men that he didn’t even know, it is a crime, not a hate crime, there is no mention of racial motivation. Now a group of strange white men stabbing a random black man, this would be hyped in the media as RACIAL RACIAL RACIAL.
It is part of the lefts shaming formula that never misses an opportunity to brand white people racists.
I feel white people in general are sick to death of the left’s “sins of the father” I feel the lefty shaming efforts are to blame for creating feelings of hostility toward the people they are “trying to advance”
If we can have David Chappell Eddy Griffin and Chris Rock baseing large parts of their routines on being racist against whites, whites should be allowed to be racist against blacks or no one should be allowed to be racist at all.
Just like gender the left has created the new reverse double standards, intolerance and bigotry in regards to race. Not progression but reversal of ignorance.
Please don’t hate me.
Kate….
The ‘colleagues’or friends don’t just look like they are embarrrassed.. I’ve been in a situation where they actually step back and step away from me.
As if to avoid being associated with me on this.
Ibce went to an event with school teachers I went to the juke box to look through the titles , the owwner of the joint approached and hounded me, I didn’ even get it at the time, he just kept on going on and on about
‘not wanting your kind’ ‘get away’ ‘go and buy something’.
I told him I was with the group and had put in an order at the bar.. but he just kept going onabout not wanting my kind.
I stepped back and my teacher was standing right behind me with, I looked at him and said do something.
He shrugged his shoulders and smiled and said oh well…
I turned around and left the bar. I wasn’t going to pay money for that. Never spoke to that tutor again.
Soul,
I wasn’t trying to reinterpret your experience, or say that you didn’t understand what was going on in front of your face. I’m not trying to deny that the types of racists you describe are out there. I was trying to point out to other whites who try not to be racist in thought, that in actual situations, when we don’t step up out of fear, that’s racist too. Some peope might be reading this thread and be feeling pretty good about themselves because they’d never say, or even think what Michal did. Clearly, that’s setting the bar too low.
And speaking of stepping up - Hujo, PC and feminism are simply non-white and/or non-male people demanding to be treated like the human beings that we are. Try to examine why this fills you with rage. Yes, there are many, many white men out there without much power - but that is not because of non-whites or women, it is because of the other white men. Why then, are you directing your rage at us?
“i dont necessarily see why folks think that jewish=not an bigoted asshole.”
PRICELESS
Critical race theory down to its LCD.
NARO%
Kate
I am speaking of what PC and feminism has become and largely how it manifests itself in the media and how this effects our popular perceptions. I am not claiming it accounts for all racial tension I in fact said it fuels it.
I am also speaking from a Canadian point of view, we do not share your past but we do in share you culture/media, the same race dynamics exist up here.
Plus I was more or less addressing Nubians point of view, that I happen to agree with very much. Ever heard white boy whitey or hubby in the media used oh so casually?
In my country the reason for that is not that it doesn’t piss guys or perhaps whites off it’s that or marketing process standards allow for male and white bashing, meaning violence and language not just slurs, it is our human rights laws that allow for such male bashing and white bashing, that allow an imbalance. The reasons our laws and policy allow for this is because it’s the same the laws that allow affirmative action to takes place.
Believe me these laws are not only applied to advance the disadvantage, they also discriminate against those labeled privileged at birth based on race and sex and in all areas of society, my personal issue with these laws is not race it is gender and the laws allow for discrimination against men of all races, they allow a lack of protection for all men, these laws allow for inherently discriminating DV laws. The possible abuses of these laws were being perpetuated largely by the liberal party that thank god (I am liberal, I think) is now a minority power.
Rage, I’ll ignore that because it is not true, you will find I am void of white guilt, you will also find human rights laws do not use class as a criterion of discrimination.
KATE next something like that happens why don’t you look the fucker in the eye, tell him you wont stand for that kind of crap, make a big stink, contact the powers above him and let them know what kind of bigoted oh so potentially liable dude they have working for them?
Hujo- you’ve got a problem with laws against men beating their wives and girlfriends? Go away, and don’t give me any bull shit about the tiny number of women who might beat their husbands or boyfriends. The gender imbalance in injury and death rates from domestic violece is clear.
Disregarding the right to equal protection from violence for the half of the planet that is almost at an equal risk of being the victim of domestic violence is not what I consider liberal, I consider this supremacist.
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050714/d050714a.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/5092100.stm
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/ID16.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/y49xfb
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/06/btsc.rowlands.batteredmen/index.html
Close-minded people will of course ignore the significance of these links, Kate. So you might as well drop the shaming tactics and just ignore me, like a say I am sick to death of them and I don’t believe shaming men or whites is valid in the now, it is hate in the now.
Your point about death may not be true, yes men have a physical advantage over women but women equalize this with weapons, thrown objects, or sneak attacks or chivalry getting another man to do the dirty work for them.
http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=357
Most popular perceptions about DV come from feminist stats that are either inflated, single gender or decades old.
The question of severity is a troubled one. When any human being is involved in a relationship with another human being that is intimidating them with violence human being victims should be able to end that relationship quickly and have a place to go.
Your wife hits you? Well suck it up and be a man she can’t hit THAT hard? This is archaic thinking.
Men and women do use violence in relationships almost equally based on the most current statistics, only women are offered an effective avenue of support because they are given more protection under law, this means there is no where for many men to go and take the kids to remove themselves from the situation, plus there is a social stigma that VAWA and other laws perpetuate, “WOMEN DON’T HIT MEN IN EQUAL NUMBERS”, “men are not victims of dv”, “men should “be a man” and take it.”
I find it revealing that feminist seek to perpetuate this when they claim to want to put an end to ridged masculine codes.
The amount of shelters for men and their kids and the amount of women arrested for DV does not come anywhere close to reflecting the stats, in fact the powers of vawa are so sweeping that abused men are the ones often removed form the scene and jailed.
You seem to miss the overall point, the one that suggests feminist supremacy; no one is demanding less protection for women but equal protection for men. When human rights laws prevent this and allow for the removal of men’s protection, we have problems.
Besides Kate VAW laws are just the tip of the lefts male discrimination based on human rights.
Well on one point I stand corrected.
http://tinyurl.com/ycdbhz
Hujo,
This thread is not about domestic violence and I will not continue to contribute to its derailment.
Well makes sense, I used dv laws as evidence to my claims feminism and pcism and the laws that they influence discriminate against and prejudge men, you suggested I advocated hitting women.
Your lefty shaming tactic forced me to prove I am not a scumbag, so really my original argument relating to the thread has not been derailed, you have provided another example of my point.
“Imposable to have rational discusions”
Hujo, the stats the purport to claim an equal degree of violence between men and women conflate incidents. Yes, it’s wrong to push someone, but a push is not as serious as beating someone up so badly they have to be hospitalized. There are no stats anywhere that suggest men are even remotely as likely to suffer severe injury./death from domestic violence. I know, i know, you don’t care because a white man with a hangnail is more deserving of sympathy than 10 dead worthless subhumans with the wrong race or gender, but what does this have to do with Michael Richards?
example 2
I know violence personally, do not pretend it does not scar psychologically, do not pretend women can not inflict serious damage and do not pretend the laws I speak of discriminate against white men only.
If women punch you behind closed doors ands you defend your self the law does not look at circumstance but tissue damage. Flawed.
Read my posts if you want to know what it has to do with Michael Richards and how you have only provided an example of my point of view.
kate…
I didn’t think you were at all. i understand what you were saying, I just went a little further to highlight some of the stuff that went down.
I see what you are saying and I have no issues with it at all.
Hugo wrote:
“White people are the only people that have to watch what they say, ”
LOL! You haven’t been reading Nubian very long, have you? She gets called out on almost every post she makes. You feel free to call her out here. That pretty much proves your own statement false.
Hugo wrote:
“I don’t believe shaming men or whites is valid in the now, it is hate in the now. ”
I think if the only thing you notice happening is the shaming, then you have missed the point. Furthermore, concentrating on the “shaming” is a method us white people use to avoid discussing racism directly.
Also, Hugo, shelters exist for women because we women got together and did something about it. We didn’t get help from anyone. Not the government, not the churches, not the schools.
No one.
Hundreds of thousands of women worked in dangerous and difficult situations without earning a single dime to create out of nothing the kind of solidarity- and grassroots-based organizations in place today. Women have support today not because of the laws but because of the hard work of feminist activists.
Unfortunately, that’s the way of the world. I don’t think it matters how righteous your cause is. What matters is doing the work.
Soul wrote:
In this fight, I’ve always believed that we ‘black people’ are on our own. And because of this.. I am never ever surprised when bullocks like this happens. Instead Im pleasantly surprised when it doesn’t.
Yeah, me too. That’s why adopting the language and tools of anti-racism is so important.
How different the Richards event would have been if the audience was filled with anti-racist activists who knew how to effectively confront this kind of nonsense.
Ravenmn-
“LOL! You haven’t been reading Nubian very long, have you? She gets called out on almost every post she makes. You feel free to call her out here. That pretty much proves your own statement false.”
Whoa, First off there is quite a difference between the blogsphere and the mainstream liberal media, the mainstream liberal media has the power to destroy lives or make people successes, it has the power to influence popular perception in a way to fit the lefts ideologies. Also. I really don’t see how the phrase “Call her out” applies, I was extrapolating on her point “we all do it”. I am simply not arguing my feelings on white community boards; all the white feminists here are just spamming the thread to their blogs, I came here to gain a greater perspective on the issue.
“I think if the only thing you notice happening is the shaming, then you have missed the point. Furthermore, concentrating on the “shaming” is a method us white people use to avoid discussing racism directly.
Hundreds of thousands of women worked in dangerous and difficult situations without earning a single dime to create out of nothing the kind of solidarity- and grassroots-based organizations in place today. Women have support today not because of the laws but because of the hard work of feminist activists.
Unfortunately, that’s the way of the world. I don’t think it matters how righteous your cause is. What matters is doing the work.”
I earn no dimes and I work against an antimale system now.
The shaming is not the only thing I am noticing, my issue is that it prevents any rational discussions that would indeed serve a greater equality and tolerance.
Yes the feminist pendulum has swung to far and believe me or ask me for examples, they ARE fighting to keep it that way. I guess there are just major differences of opinion based on diferent facts, that I have about gender status in the year 2006 in regards to our systems. I feel the pendulum holding is creating, in regards to gender and including men of all races, a female privileged society, for the new generations, where thanks to feminism, women are quite equaly violent, it’s not equal.
Black and Hispanic men in the states may be a greater victim of dv laws because the system does reveal black and Hispanic men may be given harsher treatment by the courts and prison system, men’s rights are not white bread, again I have white perspective but I do recommend the book “legalizing misandry” for the black community, you will learn suffragettes were more concerned about the white female vote than the female vote, and how the system discriminates against men of all races, and I hear it on this blog all the time so a lot of you probably know how the largely white feminist movement that claimed to be for all women distracted from black rights, that include black men and women.
Richards is not Jewish, I don’t think.
at any rate if he is, it didn’t stop him from shouting “Christ-killing Jew” in another, similar incident.
that said, sadly, no, in fact, being a member of group x in no way guarantees that one will be more empathic to members of groups y or z.
“here is quite a difference between the blogsphere and the mainstream liberal media”
Well of course there is. But you are not posting in the mainstream media. You are posting on a black woman’s blog who is talking about a white man’s racist actions.
That’s why your statement about the problems you believe white people endure are out of line and a form of calling Nubian out. Frankly, I’m sick of the fact that every time a perfectly obvious incidence of racism occurs that some white person just has to talk about the pain of white people. Our pain matters, but we can make the conscious decision to put that aside for a bit and focus on somebody else’s reality.
That’s like step 1 of anti-racist activity for white people. I highly recommend it.
Hmmm, PC vs not PC.
You’re kidding right? If White people indeed have to really watch what they say, then this is a fairly new development. And they won’t be lynched, or beaten, or tortured or set on fire, or castrated by groups of people, in response to anything they have or may have said. They won’t be strung up in trees and have White men, women and children smiling alongside them in photographs.
They won’t be standing on a stoop in New York City and approached by four plain-clothed officer and perhaps try to produce an identification card and shot over 40 times in response. They won’t be lying in medical distress inside a car and shot at by four other police officers at least 24 times then subjected to the officers hi-fiving afterwards, laughing and telling jokes about it. They won’t be shot inside a car in the mid-west for having a cell phone in their hands. And even early this morning there was a shooting involving up to eight NYPD officers that led to one man who was to be married today dead and two others injured. It’s not been said what their races are or the circumstances, but it would surprise me more if they weren’t Black given the history of the NYPD shooting Black men and trying to figure out why later. The NYPD is awfully quiet about this shooting so far so it’s not a good sign.
The shooting happened in Queens, probably not far away where several years ago, several NYPD and FDNY employees entered a float in a parade, which depicted White men in blackface and included an enactment of the dragging death of James Byrd. They had entered other similar floats in previous years and one of them had even one an award for “most humorous”. It’s all harmless fun after all, and anyone who complains about it just doesn’t have a sense of humor. They raised the same argument about the PC police as well.
Even in my city, a White police officer spouted off on my Web site about how a neighborhood that is predominantly Black and Latino should be patrolled by animal control. Last week, he was given a proclamation by the city as “public safety officer of the month”. His beaming captain stood there next to him, and talked about how he and his co-recipient were shining examples of the new blood at the police department. And this guy had also bragged about how many citizen complaints and use of force incidents he had involving people of color and told me I should check my police commission files and tell him what I thought of his work. Funny, indeed. That comment alone should have been enough for police officers to check back on those alleged incidents in light of that and his racist comments, but not surprisingly it didn’t. One has nothing to do with the other, after all. And now he’s an award-winning officer presented as a role model for other officers.
Any concern they have about racist comments and racist humor is simply lip service(or in this case to get the state off of their back) or they treat it as a separate(and more harmless) entity from the actions that are taken by officers in the field against people of color.
This humor is treated as if it’s harmless when it’s not and these apologies which many more times are not are not really apologies but excuses, are given greater importance and no matter how weak they are, they give the person absolution by society. Or else they write it off as saying, well he or she was drunk, intoxicated, upset or understress at the time as if racism is a mental illness, state of intoxication or medical condition.
Among law enforcement activism, there’s a running joke that’s not really funny at all, but very true. If an officer shoots a man or woman of color or is involved in any other high-profile incident, check your calendars because within months that officer or officers will receive some kind of award from their agency or the city that employees them.
“the mainstream liberal media”
Oh, here we go. Which mainstream liberal media would that be, again? The one where Ann Coulter is invited onto show after show and spouts the most appalling hateful crap about Arabs and Moslems and so on and so forth and they still invite her back for more?The one where blatantly race-baiting (to say nothing of gay-baiting, but that’s a whole nother ball of wax isn’t it) political ads are still aired? Talk radio? Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, all their many many ideological siblings; they’re just so -marginalized.- Fox News? freaking -South- Park? please, Mary. aren’t y’all ever going to find new talking points? at least bring yourself up to the mid-90’s or so, if “now” is too complicated?
oh, yeah, this just in, too:
http://www.kaichang.net/2006/11/yet_another_hat.html
>a 34-year-old Asian American man named Hai Vo is in a coma after being beaten outside of a bar in Grand Rapids, Michigan, almost 2 weeks ago. The details are fuzzy, but the Michigan Department of Civil Rights is treating the incident as a racist hate crime.
Apparently the conflict began inside the bar, with a group of white men taunting a group of Asian women — including Hai Vo’s sister — with dollar bills and suggestions that “Asian women cost five dollars”. We don’t know the extent to which Hai Vo attempted to defend his sister…>
don’t know if anyone else saw that richards appeared in blackface back in 1986…i have a clip up on my blog if anyone’s interested.
per shaming: you know, I’ve actually talked about this, too. In some instances I actually agree with that as a general principle: shame-dumping, making people feel bad simply for, like, -existing,- is not a good. And yes it does happen sometimes that white folks, men, other “privileged” folks, yadda, get subjected to this -in certain contexts.- Too. And it doesn’t tend to help things much, no.
This situation however has fuckall to do with any such dynamic. Richards acted appallingly and he’s rightfully being called on it. What is so damn difficult to understand? It wasn’t a -joke.- It wasn’t a -routine.- And oh, yeah: it kind of wasn’t funny. It was some racist jerk losing his shit in public.
“He’s a racist! He’s a racist! He’s a racist!!!”
–hey, just exercising my freedom of speech, there.
No one’s throwing him in jail. No one’s telling him he can’t speak or even perform anymore. Yeah, he probably did lose a bunch of audience members and maybe some venues as well; we’re supposed to shed tears over this?
There’s a difference between “freedom of speech” and “freedom to say whatever the hell you want about anyone you want while assuming that the anyone in question is not gonna respond, or indeed is obligated to be any better behaved or “nicer” than you.”
>
Please don’t hate me.>
This is interesting. Why would you say this?
“per shaming: you know, I’ve actually talked about this, too. In some instances I actually agree with that as a general principle: shame-dumping, making people feel bad simply for, like, -existing,- is not a good. And yes it does happen sometimes that white folks, men, other “privileged” folks, yadda, get subjected to this -in certain contexts.- Too. And it doesn’t tend to help things much, no.
This situation however has fuckall to do with any such dynamic.
There’s a difference between “freedom of speech” and “freedom to say whatever the hell you want about anyone you want while assuming that the anyone in question is not gonna respond, or indeed is obligated to be any better behaved or “nicer” than you.”
His career is over. The incedent WAS horrible I DID agree with that.
If you read my posts, see 41, you would see that I do not agree MR is a good man for doing what he did. I speak of a larger picture why racial tension exists IN THE NOW and no i dont mean it is the cause, or whitey has it harder and if I have to come up with disclaimers for every phrase I use, I am censored.
Nubian suggested black people can be as bad, is she an evil racist as well?
You have actually considered my argument in post 41, the points I am making, then consider how everyone here is drawing conclusions based on this shame dumping and nothing I have said.
Because of my sex and skin color I can’t talk about this shaming you’ve noticed without being branded racist? This is very much in line with my argument, and why I said don’t hate me, because of my beliefs, I thought this ridicules crap would be coming.
Wherever it was where I said whites wear the master race, or racism doest exist or whites have it harder, copy and paste it, lets see it, I never fucking said it.
discrimnation hurts. it hurts so bad. removes any sense of self worth u try hard to establish in dreams or awkward discussions to the mirror.
there are individuals who are hurt more often than others for being identified as part of a group, for being an other. register that.
intersectionality of oppression creates competing claims for rights, but to simplify the matter to its ridiculous dimension, we need to live together in justice in equality in fairness.
i am defeated by having lost focus on my projects of emancipation. criticism should be focused to inclusion not to identify weaknesses. equality is not about treating a and b the same, because a and b are not on an equal footing from the very start. how do we make critical comments on each others projects that empower a more inclusive outlook without defeating each other.
Because of my sex and skin color I can’t talk about this shaming you’ve noticed without being branded racist? This is very much in line with my argument, and why I said don’t hate me, because of my beliefs, I thought this ridicules crap would be coming.
Oh please! No one here knows what skin color or sex you are so even if anyone wanted to stop certain genders or races from talking about particular issues, your claim would still be ridiculous. Some beliefs are worth hating and, in my book, yours are included in that lot. If you don’t want people to hate you, perhaps you ought to consider what it is about your views that others find so hateful. Furthermore, in order for someone here to even care about you enough to hate you, you’d at least have to show yourself capable of more than just spouting the same pathetic soundbytes that the majority of Nubian’s readers have seen innumerable times.
Wherever it was where I said whites wear the master race, or racism doest exist or whites have it harder, copy and paste it, lets see it, I never fucking said it.
I swear, some people never get tired of building strawmen. Listen up, Hujo. One doesn’t have to say that whites are the master race or that racism doesn’t exist in order for them to have a completely ignorant point of view. Your comments are proof of that.
apology NOT accepted. that’s it. that’s all.
wait i lied Nubian…i just thought of something else…why did he need Seinfeld to hold his hand? That burns me for some reason because he’s a grown azz man. what is this middle school? o_O
secondly, why the hell would he “apologize” on David Letterman? okay now, i don’t like to generalize about my people but i’m pretty damn sure there aren’t a lot of black people up late night watching David Letterman. That still shows to me that he didn’t realize the seriousness of what he did. That wasn’t just some emotional outburst…that was deep-rooted racism. I have a problem with that…and i may think of something else but i’ll use my blog to vent so i won’t clog up your comment space lol
ms. wyldchyld - I hadn’t thought about it that way, but it seems pretty clear now that choosing to apologize on Letterman’s show clearly indicates who the apology was directed at - his (mostly white?) fans. Sort of like the college president whose “apology” for the video tape of students in black face was really for potential donors, students, etc.
Hugo wrote:
“because of my beliefs, I thought this ridicules crap would be coming.”
I don’t see the ridicule you are talking about. What I see is:
1. I suggested that while white people have pain, this is the wrong place and time to discuss it. That is not ridicule.
2. Radfem gave several well-known incidents in which POC have suffered grave injuries no matter what they do or say. thus refuting one of your main claims. This is not ridicule.
3. Belledame provided an example where a white person did not have to watch what she said in the mainstream media. This is not ridicule.
4. Belledame points out how Richards, a white person, is in a bit of career trouble over his remarks, BUT he is not in physical danger or in danger of being arrested. So although he has paid a penalty for NOT watching what he said, his penalty is not commensurate to that of people mentioned by Radfemme. This is not ridicule.
None of the above points attack your race, your gender, involve shaming or include ridicule. All four points are valid and deserve to be addressed, not misrepresented.
Ravemn - Bravo! He was making my head explode. Well done.
Hujo bows head in shame and leaves black comunity in silence.
Progress!
oh, lordie.
The -other- thing about “shame” is this: -some- shame is actually necessary; this is called “socializing.”
Bitch Lab has talked about this; there is a thing called “reintegrative shaming.”
trouble is, some people simply can’t or won’t be integrated, for whatever reason.
What part of Ravenm’s or bint’s or anyone’s post was so humiliating that you need to announce you’re taking your marbles and go home? And how do you expect people to react–with pleas to come back? Yeah, it’s a bit harsh, because people are exasperated. It’s still quite fair, even restrained, by my lights. It’s not -all about you,- you know it?
I’m sure this will just be seen as yet more gratuitous humiliation. Dude–from the heart. Whatever it is you’re looking for here, I promise you that this is not the way to get it.
Therapy is also a good thing. Just notin’.
anyway, back to upthread: yeah, i see what nubian means. It’s not that the epithet isn’t also upsetting; it’s that it’s not exactly uncommon, of itself. I still think that him screaming the word at the man in that -vicious- tone would’ve caused pretty much the same stir as if he hadn’t made the lynching remark, and i’d have understood why–this wasn’t him being “edgy” in the course of his routine, this was abuse, pure and simple.
but yeah, i also had the harder time wrapping my head around the “fifty years ago…” business. while yes, “we’re all a little bit racist,” and i expect i could -just barely- buy someone flinging the dreaded Word simply because they knew (as does everyone) it was the last thing they should say to a black man…which doesn’t excuse its racism, understand, just, i can see where the -idea- came from…I can honestly say that it never would have -occurred- to me to say what he’d said. I mean, seriously, wtf? and the “fork up your ass”? WHAT? i mean…What.
you know, i’d -like- to think that the initial laughter was because a lot of people simply didn’t quite process what he was actually saying immediately; but subsequent defenses of it as “funny” on webboards and such is making me reconsider that.
…..Perhaps I should have said; why do only white men pay for their words.
I feel human beings have a right to be angry at being negatively labeled based on conjecture and prejudice
People in The black community, people in the white community and it pains me to say it even people in the feminist community share a lot of the same enemies, ever think the powers that be benefit largely from all the racial and gender divisions within our society? Ever think that the left may be a little blind to the fact it perpetuates this stagnation and refuses to look itself in the mirror?
Hujo
as per the apology: it sort of reminded me of the dog, you know, after it’s crapped on the carpet and someone’s yelling at it. It knows it’s a BAD DOG, and might even vaguely understand it has something to do with the carpet; but it still doesn’t really process -why- they’re angry, much less what it can possibly do to make things better. Except grovel and cringe and bare the tummy: see? I’m submitting. please don’t hurt me.
which, nu, fine, and most decent people do back off on the basic principle of “don’t kick a man/dog when he’s down,” (which is what he’s banking on); but it still doesn’t address the actual problem.
as for Seinfeld: he was there because he knows damn well it affects him, too. season 7 just came out and this little flap has apparently affected the sales significantly.
>…..Perhaps I should have said; why do only white men pay for their words.>
Only if you wish to be taunted a second time. Do you?
Dude, you’re really just not processing anything anyone else is saying here at -all,- are you?
hujo…
put a sock in it. You keep trying to raise points which have nothing to do with this..
Richards was racist and he was invited back to the club the next night to perform and perform he did. (before the letterman apology)
No one has singled you out here, you have singled yourself out and placed yourself in the position of a victim. And quite frankly this is extremely insulting.. if you don’t know it, know it now.
Say bye bye to the black community if you want to, it seems like you think that we would sorely miss you, how presumptious!.
your ignorance keeps screaming out of you.. especially when you say this:
Perhaps I should have said; why do only white men pay for their words.
erm excuse me?.
You know all it takes is for one rapper to say one thing and all black men become responsible for it, on the street, in their work places, in restuarants e.t.c.
And you think only white men have to pay for their words..REALLY?
oh and who the heck are you trying to convince that people in x, y , z, jave a common enemy?
Oh puhlease, for years black women have been screaming about this, but people only realise that we have a common with black people when either a member of the white race has said something embarrassing which they want to us to sweep under the carpet or when they need mules to fight for their pet cause.
Black issues are always marginalised or sidelined with the wonderful ‘Kumbaya’ let’s just move past it, but you know black people can be racist too, you know white guilt is killing us and makes us feel shameful, so why don’t we just forget it and focus on something else..
All keywords which mean: ‘let’s not rock that boat because you know it’s a big one, and you know… it requires a lot of stuff that will never in a million years happen.
So why don’t you just let it go, just learn to get over it, and move on’.
A wise person once said…
‘If you listen closely, a person’s private thoughts eventually become revealled by their words despite their actions’.
If you must go, go.. leave, bid the black community adieu..
move into an all white shelther and proclaim to the world that you tried to work with those black folks but they just wouldn’t listen to you..
I’m sure the black folk in Canada, will weep and beat themselves with whips over you.
How bloody arrogant, but then.. what else is new?
Consider your admittance that you are more interested in taunting than reasoning this is why i will say; I would love to get into it further but I no longer feel this is the proper venue.
I guess I will do what all the white feminists have done and promote segregation.
http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=363
hujo–
can you please stop bickering with folks?
thanx.
Such a pathetic apology. I have bad nights and don’t seem to spew hate speech at people. Bullshit. That guy is so horrible and doesn’t see how horrific his remarks were/are. He definitely does need to do personal work.
Blech (sorry for the wording….my head is still reeling.)
If anyone is still looking at this thread and at the risk of kicking a guy when he’s down, this video link is about Danny Hoch experience of being asked to do “Ramon the Pool Boy” on Seinfeld.
http://www.maximumfun.org/blog/2006/11/danny-hoch-on-seinfeld.html
While Hoch seems like he might be tooting his own PC horn, I’ll give him credit for sticking to his guns.
the liberal media, wherein everyone except white men say what they want and get away with it:
“http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/michael-richards-stop-ap_b_34927.html”
How bigoted is Glenn Beck? He’s up there in Richards-land. Here’s a quick walk through Beck’s history. He called the victims of Hurricane Katrina “scumbags” and said he “hated the 9/11 families.” He called Gold Star Mother Cindy Sheehan a “prostitute” and offered to buy a 7-year-old black girl a one-way ticket to Africa - and that was beforeCNN hired him. Nevertheless, they issued a press release with fawning quotes from network exec Ken Jauntz, who called him “incredibly engaging.”
Beck made fun of blind people. He mocked the pronunciation of Muslim names. He laughed at the way he thinks black people talk and said that blacks and whites don’t like to hang out together.
Beck compared Al Gore to Hitler and called Saudi Arabians “dirtbags.” He said he was “thinking about killing Michael Moore.” He called Nick Berg’s grieving father a “scumbag” and asked: “Can’t you let your son’s body become the same temperature as his head before you turn this into a political campaign against the President?”
That’s what passes for “talent” at CNN these days….
Then there’s Weiner…
“Savage” called his former hero Ginsberg “latrine trash” and compared homosexuals to “drug addicts.” He mocked starving Ethiopians in a racist manner, saying they have “flies around their eyes,” while also saying the following: illegal immigrants are “vermin,” Asians are dog-eaters, Arabs are “non-human,” and Islam is a “bloodthirsty religion.” (Details here.)
“Savage” said the Senate has become “more vicious and histrionic” because we now have women Senators. He called the alleged rape victim at Duke University a “dirty, verminous, black stripper.”
“Savage,” once considered promising MSNBC on-air talent, lionized the US as representing “the best of the white Anglo-Saxon world” (a world that notably would exclude the Jewish Weiner — paging Dr. Freud …) He said: “when you hear ‘human rights,’ think gays … think someone who wants to rape your son.”
“Savage” accomplished the nearly-impossible in 21st-Century media and actually got fired for his bigotry, after saying this to a gay caller: ‘You should only get AIDS and die, you pig.” Cable network execs love the ratings these bigots bring - but they also like to wear those AIDS ribbons and go to black-tie fundraising events. You can brutalize the weak and powerless, but don’t step on their hypocritical self-righteousness. A professional bigot needs to know where the land mines are buried…
yeah, thanks, i’d heard that Hoch story, was trying to remember the name.
so the latest scoop is that Richards was “looking” for the two men he insulted but they left (on the night); Jackson and/or Sharpton, someone, thinks that apologizing to them -in person-, in front of a judge, maybe, would be an excellent start.
also apparently Gloria Allred (who’s representing them?) suggested monetary recompense. not clear if this is something the men have asked for, or if this is actually on the table.
Richards has reportedly started anger management therapy, which seems like an -excellent- idea, all told.
he also apparently sez he’s never used That Word before, which, i think, suuuuuuuuure.
all news links found via google, toplisted.
Michael Richards is ridiculous. I’ll say it the way I said it on a forum somewhere.
If your best response to a heckler as a comedian is shouting nigger repeatedly, you have some deep-seated psychological problems because a) that means you take yourself way too seriously if you think everybody’s going to laugh at you, b) you think that finding the most caustic and degrading insult you can toss at someone is retribution for not finding you funny, and c) you think that “wah he made me angry” is a good enough justification for insulting someone so deeply because you can’t tell a fucking joke effectively.
Either way, Richards’ face: meet Mr. Brick.
(And after this pretty cool article with the man who inspired the character of Kramer, I refuse to call him that name.)
hujo.. consider it whatever you want..
And you are still here? why? doing what?. Thought you were taking all your toys away from the ‘big, bad, black, folk’ who just can’t give you a break, despite the fact that there are white folk on this here forum saying the same thing..
This victim playing bollocks has got to stop,
So take your toys and do what you acknowledge that the white feminists do.. bugger off.
Oh and why leave a link?. What the heck for? that blasted superiority complex has got you tripping thinking that you make sense to anyone but yourself.
You wanna leave, but you still comment..
you wanna be missed, you wanna engage but you can’t step off your glorified high horse
you make a point, it gets disproven. so you wail on about how victimised you are
you keep saying you are going, you are leaving.. but you don’t leave
you keep threatening to set up some sanctified white enclave, and no one, not a single person here has asked you not too..
Go ahead with your bad self, you won’t be the first and you won’t be the last..
everything always comes back to being about you.
YOu You.
Black folk are talking about being victimised… but hold on a minute.. Hujo makes it about himself and Canada
Kramer makes a racist comment.. oh no it’s about Hujo and Canada
Advisor to British MP makes stupid comment… shock horror it’s about Hujo and Canada
Women get battered by their husbands and unite to protect themselves.. say it with me people oh no, somehow it’s about Hujo and Canada
No one is going to beg you Hujo.
If you wanna go, go. But if you wanna stay..can we talk about something else aside from Hujo and Canada.. you keep derailing the topic to make it about you.
I suppose now you can go and talk about yourself as much as you want in that enclave of whiteness and segregation you are building.
But the thing is.. who the heck cares?.
Hujo and Canada care, soul. How can all those mean mean feminists and blackfolk and black feminist folk outweigh Hurricane Hujo and Killer Canada in any discussion?
Somehow, I have the feeling that that enclave you mention, Soul, has already been built. It’s been standing an awfully long time. :>)
As to Richards, most of what I want to say has already been said, but I want to add that the fit-of-anger excuse is about as tired as the drunk excuse. Nobody is a Magical Prophet of Racial Epithets; that is to say, if you’re in a fit where you can’t quite control yourself, be it a drunken rant or unmitigated rage, you certainly don’t have the mental control to come up with something completely new out of thin air. This shit has been in his head for a loooong time.
And also, why on earth should a bit of heckling make him so angry? I mean, he’s a STAND-UP COMIC ferfuckssake. The profession perhaps the most vulnerable to ridicule in the universe. This anger has absolutely nothing to do with being heckled at a show.
And he’s a talented guy, has been a funny performer. Proving again that talent and racism are by no means mutually exclusive. Sigh.
Apparently you can listen to Richards on Jesse Jackson’s radio show here:
http://www.keephopealiveradio.com/
Anyone hear it? Any opinions?
I think people are missing the entire message that came from that ass “Kramer”. He not only used the “N” word, he talked about the lynching of Black people like it was ok to do. It was at that point that he went too far. Let’s face it, several comedians will say the ‘N’word but they do not direct it to hecklers in the audience. I am not saying that it is ok to use the ‘N’word. I personally do not allow people to use it around me. Most comedians, during a show, will make jokes of your clothes or hair so that you laugh at yourself. They are professional comedians. Richards is an idiot. He took it to an ugly place in history that I can not even stomach to think about. I hope that he goes away and live in seclusion so that no one has to see or hear from him again.
I put him in the category of people like “Hitler” and leaders of the KKK. He is an evil person and may God forgive him because I surely can not.
TAKE “SIENFELD SHOW” OFF THE AIR!!!!!!!!
http://www.allhiphop.com/hiphopnews/?ID=6442
>obody is a Magical Prophet of Racial Epithets; that is to say, if you’re in a fit where you can’t quite control yourself, be it a drunken rant or unmitigated rage, you certainly don’t have the mental control to come up with something completely new out of thin air. This shit has been in his head for a loooong time.
And also, why on earth should a bit of heckling make him so angry? I mean, he’s a STAND-UP COMIC ferfuckssake. The profession perhaps the most vulnerable to ridicule in the universe. This anger has absolutely nothing to do with being heckled at a show.>
Yep. Yep. And: yep.
perhaps his anger management therapy will shed some insights for him.
someone said stand-up comics are generally fuelled by anger; but you know, there’s angry and there’s ANGRY.
Most of the bloggers on this site don’t know what the hell they are talking about!
The issue here is hypocrisy, pure and simple. No, I am not referring to the fact that many black males refer to each other as niggers all day long. The issue here is that if the roles were reversed, with a black comedian being heckled by white audience members, he would have called them white trash, cracker, or honky, and none of us would have even heard about it. Besides, Michael Richards isn’t even a white man he’s actually Jewish (there is a major difference between Caucasian and Semite).
Black comedians call white people racist names all the time but nobody gives a shit. Many whites even think that this double standard is OK, but that’s absurd. People of all types of ethnicities defend this stance, claiming that “because they were victims of slavery this double standard is alright” but that’s pure nonsense. There are no black Americans alive today that were ever slaves or even knew one!
Furthermore, the African Chiefdoms are the ones that started slavery in the first place, and it still runs rampant in many African nations to this day! They sold their own people to the Arabs and Europeans, and the buyers were simply taking advantage of the offers presented to them. Movies such as “Roots” are not factual at all. If you don’t believe me, you need to do some serious research!
The blacks in the U.S. today have more rights than any other race! We’ve all heard of affirmative action, but what does it really mean? It means that blacks are admitted to schools or hired for jobs ahead of people from other ethnicities whom are more qualified (i.e. better test scores, more experience, etc,). This is not only unfair, but it is dangerous.
Can you imagine going to the ER with a life threatening injury, only to be assigned to a doctor who’s only there because he’s dark skinned?
They claim that the SAT, ACT and similar tests are culturally biased, but studies have confirmed otherwise. The studies indicate, that on average even the poorest whites outscore the most privileged blacks. This confirms that blacks can’t compete in a colorblind society.
There have all black universities, scholarships, magazines, and even a television network. If whites tried to start any of those things (exclusively for themselves), they would be branded as horrible racists.
Blacks who refer to whites as “crackers” are total morons, because the word actually refers to the act of cracking a whip on a slave. Thus, when you call them that you are pretty much saying that they own you. The blacks in the U.S. today have more rights than any other race.
John,
It’d be nice if you knew what you were talking about.
but I’d hazard at a guess and say ..erm you don’t.
The African chiefdoms started slavery? oh yeah? and which revisionist pamphlet did you hear that one from?.
Oh and woe betide you, poor poor John, who walks around ignoring all those main networks, magazines, universities and scholarships which are exclusively white and exclusively cater to white people…
oh dear John, how could you cope knowing that these black folk actually are interested in other things than what you want to prescribe for them…
There’s a Valley around here somewhere John, pray, cry me a river to fill it up.
Soul, you sir, are the one who doesn’t know what you are talking about!
Network TV (and all other media for that matter), are all run by Jews, not Whites.
Jews are actually of Jordanian origin, thus they are really the same people as the Arabs whom they are always starting wars with. I have nothing against them, but they are not Caucasian.
There hasn’t been an “all white” anything for about 60 years now. What magazines are you speaking of, “the KKK Weekly” or the “Jewish Journal?” The former doesn’t exist, and the later is for Jews, not Caucasians. Few blacks are interested in NASCAR or heavy metal magazines, but that doesn’t make those magazines racist does it? White people wouldn’t call an Afro hair care magazine racist, because of the obvious.
Where are all of these “all white” scholarships and universities that you speak of?
I do admit hearing about a small college (on the east coast) offering one “white only” scholarship last year, but blacks had a field day bitching about how racist it was. However, the United Negro College Fund advertises on network TV and nobody of any race bitches about it.
In fact, society caters to blacks not whites. Do you need me to provide examples of this?
On Oct 31, 2006 (Halloween Night) in Long Beach, CA, ten black youths beat the shit out of three white women (for no reason other than hate), but the national media didn’t even cover it. The only reason I know about it is because I live nearby, and it was in a local newspaper here (the L.A. times). According to the article, a few of these scumbags might actually get away with it, because one of them was misidentified in court by the sole eyewitness in the case (whom just happens to be black). Not to be racist here, but even she conceded that it was difficult to see them in the dark, due to the fact that their skin color doesn’t reflect light well. To make matters worse, because this occurred on Halloween, they may have had some make-up or costumes on.
On that same page in the newspaper they featured an article on the Teenie Pierce case. Mr. Pierce is a black fireman who is suing the city of L.A. for millions because of a firehouse prank. Apparently some white fireman put some dog food into his dinner. His nickname in the department just happens to be “the big dog.” During his participation in a volleyball game that occurred right before the prank, he was quoted as saying “feed the big dog. He is now seeking millions of dollars in a discrimination lawsuit, but there is a big difference between a prank and discrimination. The city of L.A. initially offered him a 2.7 million dollar settlement to keep it out of court, until pictures surfaced showing him participating in a number of different firehouse hazing rituals. Then the mayor, a very liberal Hispanic man vetoed the settlement. Many of these rituals were much worse than the little prank bestowed upon him. One of these pictures shows him shaving the pubic hair off of a new recruit.
How about when the so-called black leaders, like Jesse Jackson complain that there are not enough black coaches or executives in pro sports. Well, first of all blacks make up nearly all of the players in most pro sports. African-Americans are only about 15% of the population in the United States, yet they expect every player, coach, and executive to be black.
If anything we need affirmative action to get more White, Hispanic, and Asian players into the leagues. But wait, aren’t blacks better players on average, if we did that the quality of players in pro sports would be lowered. Yes, I agree, but it’s called diversity, just like when a white or Asian has to sit back and see a person of lower intelligence take a scholarship that should have been awarded to them. Diversity, all of the sudden doesn’t sound to hot to blacks does it?
Remember too, that my example was simply about sports, rather than college, something that’s way more important. Wouldn’t you want the best doctor possible when you are sick or injured (lets say the Michael Jordan of doctors for Ebonics sake here), or would you rather have a guy just put there because of the color of his skin (let’s say he’s Joe Kleine in Ebonics).
Soul, you really need to do some soul searching (no pun intended), especially when it comes to the origins of slavery. While attending high school, most of us were taught pollitically correct fabrications, rather than the ugly truth! You need to find the truth by doing research, rather than just taking the word of a bunch of overly liberal teachers!
Does unrealistic all “white” ensemble casting count? I mean, I’m sure that counts as something.
In mainstream America they have assimilated pretty effortlessly into white culture. I would dispute the claim they “control” everything, but they are relatively successful and well integrated when compared to other marginalized groups. I would also argue that their success still does not indicate that they are not marginalized because most whites feel a need to distinguish Jews from themselves, and there is still an abundance of anti-Semitic sentiment that has perpetrated since the years of our Lord, and even before. Mostly relating to their “power” which always translates as “wealth.” Sound familiar?
Now see, it’s not the magazines that are racist; it’s the sentiments of people like you who assume that black people or other minorities would have no interest in certain hobbies, so companies use advertising geared towards what whites think the white target audience would like — an action which further alienates other audiences.
There wouldn’t be a need for an Afro hair care magazine if regular hair care magazines included tips for managing and styling all types of hair.
I love the assumption that they’re unequivocally guilty, when they’re supposed to have the presumption of innocence. Guess you have your battle lines drawn, huh? Including the non sequitur about not being able to see black people in the dark. There’s this underlying implication that if it were white “youths” beating up white “women” that everything would be at least a little bit better. Or that white “youths” don’t beat up people of color.
Oh my God. You’re right. That means…ALL BLACK PEOPLE ARE EVIL AND TAKING OVER!!!! And I’m not even generalizing from one case of one person doing something morally questionable. It’s the whole damned race! Hide the children!
You would think since blacks do make up the majority of players, there would be some reflection or representation of that in team ownership and team leadership. Instead, you notice that black athletes are more like the game pieces and the players controlling their wages, their contracts, and their careers are the actual game players. Hmmm.
Who said that? Trust me, when you make generalized statements like those, you’re not paying anyone a compliment. Please don’t waste time trying to be “nice” or trying to grant any more “concessions” to The Black Monolith(TM).
Wait…what? So you’re presuming…that all ambiguously brown-shaded people…are of lower intelligence. Wow. Racism is dead.
Depends. Is he going to give me fair and equal treatment (let’s say “the language of the Constitution” for argument’s sake here), or is his treatment going to be swayed by his presumption that minorities with brown skin are dim-witted criminals who control everything (let’s say “you” for argument’s sake here)?
Since you seem big on research, why don’t you investigate denial? (Not to be confused with The Nile.)
Soooo…no one wants to take on John?
Jews: whether or not a “jew” is a semite or not depends on “how” they became a Jew. The Ashkenazim, whom, we will refer to here as “european jews” are a special group in that they spread throughout Eastern Europe. By recent research it is said that 40% of Y chromosome genes and 40% of MtDNA (mitochondrial DNA) are from the Middle East, however the flip side of that fact is that the majority of mtDNA as well as the majority of Y chromosome DNA is NON -Semetic which clearly means that such European Jewery is “white” as in “Caucasian.” Hence it cannot be dismissed out of hand the “whiteness” of many modern Jews.
For those that doubt thier “caucasianess” need only to look at the Lemba of Malawi who have similar genetic markings as the Ashkenazi but are black like thier non-jewish neighbors.
As far as Michael Richards is concerned, my understanding is that he is not Jewish in the orthodox sense of the word. He does not have a Jewish mother so that basically ends the conversation on his jewishness. But the fact of his Caucasianess is not the basis of his non-Jewishness.
As for slave trading. I would ask two questions:
1) If you uy stolen property and you know it is stolen are you culpable?
2) Is “Indentured servitude” any different from being sold off for work by an “African chief”? That is, if the “African Chief” “expects” that like in his own country a person can work off his “servitude” no different than a European “Indentured servant” could expect, are they really any different? If not then wouldn’t the moral morass of American slavery be squarely on the shoulders of those who treated the African differently than the European “servant”?
Ok third question: By what basis does one claim that Africans “originated” Slavery when “Slavery” has been a part of any number of societies and justified by Islam, Judaism and Christianity whose origins predate, by far, the Atlantic Slave trade?
In regards to random acts of violence against white individuals by black individuals: Not to say that it is OK to randomly violate people, but I’m glad you have brought it up in the wake of the Queens shooting because of all the examples of random violence you brought up, you could not bring up a situation where organized and institutionalized black people, systematically and apparently legally violate white people. Nope No cases of a group of black police officers shooting wildly in white communities. No cases of black cops mistaking wallets for guns and shooting up white immigrants. Nope no examples. No groups of black men and women in law enforcement capacities designing programs to liquidate potential white leadership.
Anyway. I would like to do a swap with John, who I don’t know, but I’ll let him stand in for “white America”. Say, since I never personally knew a slave and you apparently never had one and since it all doesn’t really matter at all then why not switch economic places (in general). How about black people get all the wealth and priviledges that whites got from segregation such as no business competition by law with blacks. The ability to rip off black musicians and using segregation and discrimination of the day allow “large” music companies to avoid competition from black owned ones. Lets also switch up the black wall streets. You know the places and times where blacks were getting ahead and building assets like property and businesses and the intellectual properties and patents that come with such things. You know the stuff destroyed by white mobs usually over a lie told by a lusty white woman.
Lets switch up the political legacies that ran black congressmen out of office not to be seen for decades. Which of course means that whites wouldn’t have benefitted from public schools since those black legislators were the ones that got that going. But on a more “porky” side, lets think of all the government money that never got to be spent in black neighborhoods so they were well underdeveloped. Yes lets switch all of that around. AND for tops, we’ll switch thhe massive amount of wealth generated by the cotton, tobacco and sugar industries off of slave labour. You know that wealth that founded many insurance companies and banks. Industries such as shipping and the like. I mean I never saw any of this and neither did you (representing white America and all) so You shouldn’t live with the benefits you have and I shouldn’t live with the problems that accrued. I mean that is fair right?
And yo, that’s the short summary.
Michael Richards’ mother actually isn’t Jewish. It’s something like, he is interested in Judaism, but never formally converted. Yelling Christ-killer at Jewish hecklers isn’t gonna get him invited to many Passover seders though.
In any event, as a Jew, I think Jews should be more sensitive to other peoples’ plights because of our history. But unfortunately there are racist Jews. Generally, Jewish racists don’t say “that’s what happens when you interrupt the white man” though. Not a very Jewy thing to say.
oh shut up John. I’m not a ‘Sir’ and I did not grow up listening to ‘liberal TV’, I don’t live in the US and yes ..
You are dealing with a real, live, African.
Puhlease. I don’t have the time or the inclination to go back and forth with you about slavery in europe or in Greece amongst the white races or blah blah blah…
Youe facts and premises are baseless, your theory is soo paper thin, that even you rip apart your points by your ubsequent posts.
And quite frankly… you bore me.
the N word doe bother me and it makes no different the race. I live in Los Angeles and find more racism here than where I was brought upin nebraska. also i have dealt more rascism from mexicans than white.